Book - Securing Digital Rights for Communities | Chapter 24. Future Implications

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All right, two more chapters of the book to go. Chapter 24 is Future Implications.

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So what are the implications of this technology that we've described in the book? I mean,

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there's many, obviously. It's world shattering. If you think about the world in the future with

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thousands or hundreds, at least, of these breakaway community platforms that have their

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own decentralized storage, their own decentralized infrastructure, the infrastructure is operated by

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the communities, not centralized companies. They have their own economies. They can fund

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their own projects. They can make their own governance decisions. They can communicate

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on the text-based data-based storage layer that we were mentioning. They can write their own smart

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contracts. These are network states. They are states of their own right online. And there's

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going to be many, many of them in the future. And the ones that run the best business models and

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have the best governance representation will be the ones that succeed. And they will, in my opinion,

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have

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significant economies in the future, economies to be reckoned with. They will wield significant

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amounts of power. And how they play with that power, how they use that power will depend on

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where they fit into the global order in the future. Well, I think it will be a legitimate force.

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I mean, first of all, they're impossible to shut down.

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As we've demonstrated in the vulnerability section of this book, attacking them often makes a

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stronger and richer. Because if you have a properly decentralized project, you have to go into the

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open market to accumulate the project's token over time before you can take it over, thereby

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enriching the original users and allowing them to fork away from you. So it's very difficult,

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if not impossible, to take these communities over without making them very, very wealthy

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or more extremist. Because as they fork, you'll get extreme elements of the forks.

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People should be warned against forcing these communities into forks, because the extreme elements will congregate

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and they'll make more extreme-viewed chains, I think. And the best thing is to figure out how to work with them,

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how to become members of these communities, and how to work with them and benefit them, and benefit yourselves

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while you're doing it. That's how you should work with these communities in the future.

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They can also hold abusive oligarchs to account.

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So if oligarchs get too big, and they're not seen to be investing in the community, communities can fork.

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Communities will be able to fork away from them and leave the oligarch on the old chain with his balance,

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but on the new chain, he'll have zero balance.

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So that knowledge in the top-level holders, in the biggest holders, it prevents them from behaving too oligarchical,

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and it forces them almost to constantly reinvest in the community.

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And communities that do that the best will be the most successful.

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Communities that don't do that very well, you can almost guarantee that members of the community will fork away

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from the big abusive oligarchs, especially if they're extracting from the community.

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So that's going to be a very interesting dynamic in society in the future to watch happen.

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Self-sovereignty, the accounts on the base text layer, the social media accounts on the base text layer,

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are self-sovereign, and they can't be deleted. As long as the network's running, those accounts exist,

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and so people will be able to speak, people will be able to talk.

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Communication will be able to happen, even during a takeover, even during a war.

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So that is going to be another social dynamic that happens that's very, very interesting.

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The storage of history, the storage of what happened in the past,

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the inability for the ruling classes to eradicate history and change it and manipulate it to their own good

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is going to be a very, very interesting dimension of history, dimension of the future, to see how that happens, how that unfolds.

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The fact that history will be stored on these chains and won't be able to be deleted is going to be a very, very interesting change

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to the societal dynamics of today.

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Networked state communities and governments, I feel like they're going to start to become akin.

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I think at some point governments will start to recognize networked state communities and work with them somehow,

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maybe even join them, maybe even become part of them, maybe run their own networked state communities,

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who knows?

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It's going to be very, very interesting.

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Fee-less DeFi is a thing, this ability to stake tokens and receive resources from the chain instead of paying fees

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is going to make a big difference in many places, including social media, posting communications on-chain,

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and decentralized finance on-chain.

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At the moment, decentralized finance has a lot of gas fees, there's a lot of requirement to fund your account with gas fees before you can transact,

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which is interesting.

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Which is all well and good, if that's your only competition, but when you're starting to compete against fee-less chains

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that don't require gas fees to do DeFi,

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when you're talking about large numbers of trades, large numbers of exchanges, and every one of those taking a small fee,

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whereas on the fee-less chains, that can be as low as physically possible, if not zero,

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there's going to be a lot of stiff competition in the future in DeFi against fee-less chains, in my opinion.

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So every...

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When you look at a consensus mechanism, regardless of what anyone says, everything is voting.

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Everything is some kind of voting. There's no such thing as no voting.

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So understand that regardless, it's either infrastructure, you're voting with hardware, electricity,

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it's either people, you're voting with persons, it's either assets, whether it's land or token, whatever,

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regardless, at some point, you are voting.

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Because there's no protocol that can't have consensus.

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It has to have consensus for upgrades. It has to have consensus on what is the truth.

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Like, you have to have people that say, yeah, this is the chain, not the chain where you don't have any money.

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So regardless, you always need some form of consensus.

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And moving into the future, when you talk about worst-case scenarios,

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that's where I go first when I'm choosing a consensus that I think is correct.

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And when I mean choose, I mean choose to join, not create.

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When you...

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Something like infrastructure voting, I don't like it because you can't fork it.

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You can't fork it because you can't fork infrastructure.

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You can't fork electricity.

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And you can't fork the mining, the centralized mining pools that hold all the liquidity.

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You can't fork the liquidity.

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You can't fork all the centralized exchanges that it's reliant on.

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There's a lot of things.

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There's a lot of things that are wrong when you try to fork infrastructure voting.

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What I like about coin voting, and of course not everything is perfect,

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but the good thing about coin voting, and specifically parametered coin voting,

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because unparametered coin voting doesn't have this feature,

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parametered coin voting, you have reputation.

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And if you try to attack something, your reputation is ruined.

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And the community can...

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If the attack is so severe you can't overcome, the community can choose to fork, zero your balance,

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meaning you have no more power.

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We know everyone else.

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We already know our validators.

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We know our leaders.

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We have something to fall back on, like a frame, a skeleton.

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We have the meat.

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We have everything needed to put together a new system.

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We don't have to look at each other and say who does what.

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It's like you're in the top 20.

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You're a backup.

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You know what your job is.

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And we saw it work almost flawlessly with Hive.

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It was amazing how easy it was.

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And we didn't lose anything.

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No history was lost.

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So you can't do that without reputation because, yeah, sure,

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you can zero out the person's balance, but what if they just fucking do it again?

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Like, you don't know.

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You don't know who's who.

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It's just...

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It's no man's land.

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You don't know who these attackers are.

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On Hive or reputation-based voting, it's reputation-based voting.

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There's people with less stake than me that are in higher positions than I am.

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Because their reputation is perceived as higher.

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Or they're perceived as providing more value.

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Regardless, you're based on how you are with the community.

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If anybody has enough power to vote in the entire council, if you will, the entire...

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I don't like the word council.

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Entire witnesses, then it's an attack vector.

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It's an automatic attack vector.

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So we're automatically assuming that the vote is distributed.

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When you have that, then it's okay.

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When you have that, then it's reputation.

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Reputation matters.

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And without it, you can't get in no matter how much stake you have.

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Because the community won't vote you in.

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So it's very important because now people see,

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oh, I can't just money attack the chain because it's dumb.

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It makes everyone rich but me.

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It makes me poor.

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It makes the attacker poor.

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It makes everyone else rich.

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Because what you do is you pump the token.

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They sell.

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And they move on to the high...

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To the other fork.

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It's like, yeah, you might zero the balances of some people, but you're not going to get everybody.

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We're going to zero everyone's balance.

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So regardless, you're going to get that sell pressure and you just enrich.

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Plus, you have to accumulate the coin.

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So once the attack is realized and the correct parameters are in place like we have,

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if we decide that it's a disaster and for some reason that month we just realize it's all over,

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we can just fucking dump on your ass and fork.

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So you're fucked.

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It's very difficult.

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So that's what I like about coin parameter voting with reputation.

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Coin voting is because you're really fucked if you do something bad.

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You can correct parameters.

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It's almost impossible.

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It's like you literally made us rich.

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Bye bye.

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We just fork it.

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We take literally whatever the fuck name we want.

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Doesn't matter.

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We don't care about copyright.

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None of that matters.

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We can be whatever and do whatever we want.

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We're that powerful.

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So literally one of the richest people you can think of.

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A fucking billionaire.

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Rich as fuck.

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Did everything he could.

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And people don't realize the extent this man.

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He cried peers.

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He had people who worked for him have mental breakdowns.

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He bribed people in Discord channels.

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He was up late at night tinkering.

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It was a big fucking deal to him.

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And he even did illegal shit.

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He did everything he could to try to win.

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And he failed.

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And lost in the end.

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And you realize that money, power doesn't exist if the community is against you.

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Because power only exists because a lot of humans follow you.

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Or you own a bunch of AI robots.

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One of the fucking two.

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But right now let's not imagine the AI robot world.

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It's all about humans.

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So that's where power is.

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So we're waking up people.

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More and more people are joining.

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More people are joining, more powerful we become.

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If you try to attack, you will get zeroed.

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You will only make us stronger.

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So that's like an awesome attack vector, no?

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It's like an attack vector that makes you stronger?

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I'll take that every day.

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Whereas on Bitcoin, if you fork, you're fucked.

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Because it's not making you stronger.

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Because you have no stake.

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It's infrastructure.

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You have to buy more shit, if anything.

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Or put more energy into it.

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So it doesn't enrich the community.

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So any way where it's an actual way to enrich the community and have a way out, I'm all for.

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Yep.

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And I just think communities knowing that in the future means they're going to just behave differently.

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Yep.

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That would be our best behavior.

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It's a very different paradigm to one we currently exist in.

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That would be our very best behavior.

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Best behavior.

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Holding abusive oligarchs to account.

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That's kind of a similar thing to what you just discussed.

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But it's really, in my opinion, the important thing with that is that we can fork away from abusive oligarchs, right?

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If they're extracting from the community rather than giving to the community, then the community can itself decide, okay, we're all affected by this.

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We're all going to fork and leave at the same time and leave this guy with zero balance on the new chain.

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That removes the requirement for a communist bloody revolution.

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And I think that is a massive milestone in human history.

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Because that's what the communists always come down to.

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They always want to have a...

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Because if it's in the physical economy, it's got to be a violent bloody revolution.

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This is a communist revolution, moving away from a rich oligarch that's abusing you, which is basically where the communist roots come from.

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They don't want that, right?

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But in order to do that, they fully realize that it has to be a violent bloody revolution.

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Whereas this is not violent or bloody at all.

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This is just a digital revolution where you move away.

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And so...

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And you don't confiscate it.

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You don't confiscate assets.

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There's no moment where you confiscate assets in this.

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You just zero balances on the new system.

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So it's quite an interesting paradigm.

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And I think that's going to be very...

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It's going to save a lot of blood in the future.

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I'm pretty sure of that.

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When we have disagreements.

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What's the rest here?

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Digital self-sovereignty.

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So the idea that people are going to have their own digital self-sovereignty and they're not going to be able to be canceled or deleted.

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I think is a massive implementation.

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For the future.

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It's definitely a new paradigm.

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So, yeah.

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I mean, your accounts can't be deleted off the base chain.

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Any thoughts on that, Dan?

238
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I mean, it just goes to the implication that, you know, you can't delete history.

239
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You can't change history.

240
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You can't censor the person.

241
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The account's yours.

242
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Right now, a lot of people have to walk on eggshells.

243
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You won't have to walk on eggshells.

244
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It'll be a new paradigm because I think, like, you know, you think you get a new paradigm.

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Like, you know, you think you get some, you follow somebody you respect and you think you're getting the best out of them.

246
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But, you know, maybe they're holding back a little bit because back of their mind, you know, these centralized sites are pretty damn important.

247
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So I think if you have an implication of no glass ceiling, like, we don't really know how big these communities get because maybe they start to tone things down or they kind of ordain who they think should be the top person.

248
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Right?

249
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You know, maybe you have to do weird shit or be in a weird thing to become one of the top people.

250
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You know, we don't know.

251
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We don't understand.

252
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It's a private company where if you're a community, you can rise as high as you want because hives enter protocol.

253
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It's not going to judge you or make you do weird shit or whatever the fuck goes on behind the scenes.

254
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So, yeah, owning your account and knowing it can't be taken from you is going to be critical.

255
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And that's why I think, like, you know, if you have the ability to trust and trust, that's going to be critical.

256
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weird thing to become one of the top people you know we don't know we don't understand it's a

257
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private company where if you're a community you can rise as high as you want because hives energy

258
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protocol it's not going to judge you or make you do weird or whatever the goes on behind the

259
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scenes so yeah owning your account and knowing it can't be taken from you it's going to be crazy

260
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when people actually believe it and know it and then they're going to get audacious because they're

261
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going to be like huh you want to you want to cancel me huh well you can't cancel this account

262
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I'm gonna go post about it um I don't think people fully understand that that's possible

263
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yet they don't believe it because there's been a lot of there's been a lot of I won't

264
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name names but there's a lot of where they say oh your content we got your back

265
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and then they go out of business or whatever the get sued or whatever shut down

266
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there's been a

267
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of fuckery where people don't believe it's real they're like yeah but you know they're like yeah

268
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but you know if shit hits a fan we you know it's like you're just like basically a black market

269
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fucking back door that like is hidden but not like once you're found so it's like what's the

270
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point because I'm going to get big and then they're just going to cancel me anyway I think

271
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a lot of people feel that way and why wouldn't they because that's exactly what fucking happened

272
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when you trusted these platforms you can name over five that you know have just gone they've

273
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come and gone but they've promised to be immutable they promised decentralization

274
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you know there's no business model when it comes to the neutral protocol there's not some company

275
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that needs to keep it alive if that's the case then you fail you start over because that's not

276
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a route that you can actually even recover from yeah it'll definitely change the way people express

277
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themselves as well because like you say just saying that's a great point that people today

278
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say they're not going to be able to do it because they're not going to be able to do it because they're

279
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self-censored because they're worried that if they put the effort into growing a platform or to

280
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grow in a message then they're just going to get cancelled anyway and they could lose their jobs

281
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and lose their income streams have their accounts closed whereas this is different this is like no

282
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one can ever close your account now you know this is you can you can grow your own anonymous digital

283
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identity that you've decided what it is but no one else knows it's you and that identity can do

284
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the talking and do the do the transacting and there's nothing that anyone can do about it so

285
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it's going to completely change the way people think about expression

286
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it's going to completely change the way people think about expression

287
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self-censorship everything like that not to mention that you can release your own

288
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community platforms so you literally have your own platform spun up with almost zero fees

289
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it's uh it's going to be very very powerful time and then those platforms can distribute their own

290
00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:35,460
economies and tokens and that brings me on to the next point here which is network state

291
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communities and governments so what we've described here we think is

292
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the next iteration of

293
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what beladji says has been speaking about regarding network states

294
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it's digital we're not going to pretend we know how to get it into the physical world we think

295
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:58,900
that's going to have to do with you know making agreements and discords with and sorry I should

296
00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:03,060
say accords with governments and existing states figuring out a way to acquire land

297
00:18:04,020 --> 00:18:07,780
figuring out a way to create value as a community and provide a product to the rest of the world

298
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that the rest of the world accepts and or a service or something like that and allow the rest of the

299
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accept the fact that this digital community has rights and has a right to exist, maybe

300
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even has a right to some land.

301
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Maybe it can buy its own land, maybe it can win that land some other way.

302
00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:30,300
It's going to be very interesting to see this happen, but we think this is the best way

303
00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:35,900
to have the best chance of achieving that, and this comes back to this point I was just

304
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:41,800
making where you've got these immutable accounts on the base layer, the text base layer.

305
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,880
You've got these immutable communities on the text base layer, and then now you've got

306
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:46,880
followers lists.

307
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,800
So everyone can see who follows you, again, it's not necessarily tied to an ID, it's tied

308
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:59,320
to accounts that these people have grown anonymously, and that means that because that information

309
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,680
is stored on the base layer, it can't be deleted.

310
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,820
No one can delete your community anymore, right?

311
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:05,740
No one can delete your followers lists.

312
00:19:05,740 --> 00:19:08,060
It's on the chain, it's yours basically.

313
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:11,780
You've accumulated those followers and no one can delete them.

314
00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:18,020
So, with that, you have a community that can't be deleted, and with that, you can create

315
00:19:18,020 --> 00:19:21,940
community-based platforms that can't be deleted or shut down.

316
00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:26,660
And now you can start to have regulatory rules by the community for the community itself

317
00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:30,500
on top of these database layers that store text.

318
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,820
And what that means is now you have the ability for communities to have self-sovereignty

319
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and govern themselves from their own platforms that they run themselves.

320
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And then the next step is tokens.

321
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,620
These communities are going to have their own token economies.

322
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And as long as they build clever syncs and business models into those tokens, not just

323
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distribution where the tokens go to zero, and not just pump my token, pump my bags because

324
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,300
it's a meme coin, those things aren't sustainable.

325
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,860
You build sustainable, slow-growing economies into these things with sync mechanisms where

326
00:19:59,860 --> 00:20:04,920
you have to accumulate the tokens to get access to certain things in a community, or get access

327
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,740
to certain members of the community, only if you have above X amount of tokens, or receive

328
00:20:10,740 --> 00:20:14,500
certain assets mined from the community because they produce a certain amount of digital assets

329
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:19,500
every month that you can get hold of by accumulating the token of that community.

330
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:23,740
You have a chance at a sustainable community economy.

331
00:20:23,740 --> 00:20:27,620
Once you have that, you have network states that can't be shut down, and communities that

332
00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:32,500
can't be shut down that back those network states with their own economies, and those

333
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:35,060
economies will yield power.

334
00:20:35,060 --> 00:20:40,500
And so this future world we're going into is going to be filled with multiple hundreds

335
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:44,540
and maybe thousands of communities online that have their own sovereignty and their

336
00:20:44,540 --> 00:20:50,380
own economies, and their own, you know, wield their own requirement for recognition and

337
00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:51,380
respect.

338
00:20:51,380 --> 00:20:55,660
They'll have their own cultures.

339
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It means that many people will be able to find solace in a place to identify themselves

340
00:21:00,260 --> 00:21:02,660
with where maybe they're lost in the current world's paradigm.

341
00:21:02,660 --> 00:21:05,300
So that's going to be very interesting.

342
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:07,300
But it also means there's going to be a lot more clashes, right?

343
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:10,060
There's potentially going to be a lot more clashes between different power brokers.

344
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:13,140
But then it's like, well, what are they really fighting over?

345
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:17,860
If you're fighting over digital space, digital space is infinite.

346
00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:20,780
So maybe it's just ideologies that you're fighting over.

347
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:23,460
Maybe there's some sort of fighting over land and physical territory and resources in the

348
00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:26,660
physical world, but then that's what we've already got here at the moment.

349
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:33,300
What will certainly happen is that there'll be a rebalancing of power where at the moment

350
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:37,340
you have something like 220 governments, 230, I can't remember, 250 governments maybe.

351
00:21:37,340 --> 00:21:39,380
Probably 70% of those print their own money.

352
00:21:39,380 --> 00:21:40,380
Great.

353
00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:43,140
Create their own money and have their own economies.

354
00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:48,620
Well, now you're going to add on to that another several hundred, maybe several thousand digital,

355
00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:51,540
legitimate digital communities that have their own identities, their own cultures,

356
00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:55,620
their own economies that can't be deleted, that must be heard.

357
00:21:55,620 --> 00:21:57,540
And so I think it will be a rebalancing of the power.

358
00:21:57,540 --> 00:22:03,140
I think there'll be a lot more power brokers in the world and a decentralization of power,

359
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:05,420
which I think is probably a good thing.

360
00:22:05,420 --> 00:22:09,300
I can't predict what the future looks like, but it's certainly not going to be the one

361
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:10,300
that's kind of laid out by the internet.

362
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:15,640
It's going to be the elites at the moment, which I think is probably a good thing.

363
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,640
Any other thoughts on network states, communities, and governance?

364
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,080
And by the way, they'll all have their own governance models, so they'll be able to vote

365
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,740
in their own ways and express their requirement to steer the communities that they exist as

366
00:22:26,740 --> 00:22:29,760
part of in their own ways.

367
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,760
This is powerful stuff, paradigm shifting stuff.

368
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,380
Different world in the future for sure.

369
00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:35,380
Yeah.

370
00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:37,300
I mean, they can become digital nations.

371
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:38,300
Tokenized communities.

372
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:39,300
Yeah.

373
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:40,300
Yeah.

374
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:48,660
Tokenized communities with the ability to delegate funds, have a pool, have a resource,

375
00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:55,640
have a mutable speech, have a way to raise value without being censored.

376
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:56,640
It's a new system.

377
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,740
You have the SWIFT system.

378
00:22:59,740 --> 00:23:03,780
The thing is, the old system is so many different clunky things.

379
00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:08,220
You got the SWIFT, you got the banking system, you got your social media with Twitter and

380
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:09,220
all that.

381
00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:10,220
Yeah.

382
00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:17,180
And then you got just the data hosters behind the scenes that actually host those things.

383
00:23:17,180 --> 00:23:20,800
And then all these things become synergized.

384
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,580
It's one thing.

385
00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:27,680
You get your reputation, you have your community, you have your bank account, you have your

386
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:33,760
ability to transfer value, you have the ability to raise and build reputation, store your

387
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,260
speech.

388
00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:36,260
It's all one thing.

389
00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:38,220
And it's all backed by a community.

390
00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:39,220
Yeah.

391
00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:44,540
And we have a lot of different broken down, fragmented, centralized organizations.

392
00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:51,860
So it becomes basically everything we need to move forward without being taken over and

393
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:52,860
controlled.

394
00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:53,860
Yeah.

395
00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:59,220
And then the last thing we've got here, there's probably myriad other things that are future

396
00:23:59,220 --> 00:24:04,000
implications and paradigm changing issues that we could probably discuss in this chapter,

397
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,680
but we could be here forever, I think.

398
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,260
So the last thing I wanted to just touch on briefly was FeeLess DeFi.

399
00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:15,280
So a lot of the crypto industry at the moment and in the past few years has been obsessed

400
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:22,900
with DeFi, making passive income off things like trading fees and other speculative models.

401
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:23,900
That's cool.

402
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:24,900
That's cool.

403
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:30,300
And on feeed blockchains, you have to pay a fee into the exchange system and to move

404
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:31,300
the tokens.

405
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:33,900
So those fees go back to the stakers of the DeFi pools.

406
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:34,900
Yeah.

407
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:35,900
Yeah.

408
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:36,900
Yeah.

409
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:40,820
And the problem with that is that it makes it somewhat exclusionary to a portion of the

410
00:24:40,820 --> 00:24:43,920
public because a lot of people can't afford those fees.

411
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,360
Although they won't be able to afford to pay those fees on a regular basis.

412
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:52,880
If you look at some of the Ethereum transactions that were going on, you know, between 12 and

413
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,220
15, up to 70, $150 a fee at times.

414
00:24:58,220 --> 00:25:03,140
If you're making regular DeFi transactions and you're swapping between tokens, the only

415
00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:05,420
way you can afford to do that is if you're incredibly rich.

416
00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:06,420
Yeah.

417
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:11,880
you know millions and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of value on a

418
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,440
regular basis okay you can afford to pay twelve to sixty dollar fees per

419
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,000
transaction but the masses can't the masses can't get access to that and

420
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,120
there's technology being built on chains like aetherium to reduce the fees and

421
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:27,980
more people can get access but then as we've laid out several times during this

422
00:25:27,980 --> 00:25:32,880
this book aetherium is somewhat centralized and it will be some it will

423
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:38,700
become a banker chain we think and the forces that play at banking will take

424
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:42,060
over and they'll be able to undercut everyone else while they while they take

425
00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:47,340
absorb the fees right whereas on feeler systems that we've been describing with

426
00:25:47,340 --> 00:25:52,800
text based data layer that base layers later once where you have to stake some

427
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,020
resources to get access to the chain to get access to the free fees on the chain

428
00:25:57,020 --> 00:26:02,640
now you can have feelers defy which is the everyday common man's

429
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:02,880
default

430
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,440
right and it will be able to compete against the defy of the big banks so the

431
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,380
big corporations the big entities on chains like aetherium the VC backed ICO

432
00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:17,340
stakes on aetherium it's going to be very interesting oh it's just slow it's

433
00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:20,940
catching up it's like the snail and the tortoise but at some point you'll start

434
00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:26,700
to see feelers defy start to reach into the market caps of some of these other

435
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:31,120
tokens I think it's a very interesting implication for the future I'm kind of

436
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:32,880
looking forward to seeing that develop and

437
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,420
grow because the point is you can come you know if as long as you have a feelers

438
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:39,360
chain you can confidently always say at some point you're going to out compete

439
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:45,540
everyone even the banks even the banks are limited unlimited amounts of money I

440
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:48,720
think will eventually have to start to consider for themselves to use feelers

441
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:55,200
defy instead of using feed defy the actual exchanges the exchange mechanism

442
00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:00,480
will probably always have a fee unless there's some other way to leverage fees

443
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,560
and costs out of the system

444
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,140
but the actual in you know the deposit extraction of funds from these systems

445
00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:10,920
where they're run whether they're run internally on a base layer chain or

446
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,760
whether they're run as part of a layer two these things all matter as to what

447
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,680
the fees are going to be on these systems and I think as long as you have

448
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,260
a fearless base layer you have the best chance of having the most competitive model