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All right. Welcome. This is the discussion between me and Dan for the book related to

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decentralization. I think, what are we going to call the book, Dan?

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Discovering Censorship Resistance.

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Discovering Censorship Resistance. Or something like Guaranteeing Censorship Resistance.

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But anyway, here is the first part. Vision and Implications of Decentralization for Networked States.

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So where is this going? And the first bullet point we've got is Voluntary Migration to Alternative Economy.

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I don't know if you want to say anything on that, Dan.

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Migration to a...

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Voluntary migration to an alternative economy. What's going to happen?

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Well, it's important to recognize that you need an alternative to anything.

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If you have one system, and it doesn't matter how benevolent that system is,

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eventually it's going to take advantage of you.

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Because it knows you have no other option.

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And that's what's happened in today's society.

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We've really relied...

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We've relied on SWIFT.

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We've relied on the economies.

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Really the same cookie-cutter bullshit.

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You've got your college.

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You go to work.

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You pay your taxes into a system that doesn't benefit you.

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It goes to wars.

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It pays off its friends.

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So we got into this abusive relationship with one system.

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And there's not been an alternative.

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And really, the thought of an alternative kind of blows people's mind.

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Because they're like, what do you mean, alternative?

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It's like you have fiat.

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And that's a big word to most.

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Most will just say they're common.

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You know, we're in Mexico, so they'd say peso or dollar.

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But they're like, what do you mean?

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Like, euros?

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Like, they don't understand.

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Like, gold?

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Like, you start getting deeper and deeper.

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And you realize that, no, what they have built is the physical world.

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And right now, we're fighting for the digital world.

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And they're trying to make the same thing that they did in the physical world into digital.

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Now, we have an alternative, or at least we're building an alternative.

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And whether it works or not, I'm not concerned with that.

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I'm concerned with the fact that we've given an alternative.

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And if the people don't want that, who am I to say?

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Because none of us know if we're wrong or right.

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We're just doing what we feel is right.

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And if there's enough people that feel the same way, they have a place to go outside the system.

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And what does that mean?

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They're not stripped of their dignity.

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They're not saying, we need to do this.

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They're not saying, we need to do this.

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They're not saying, we need to do this.

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They're not saying, we need to do this.

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They're not saying, we need to do this.

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They're not saying, we need to know who you are.

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If you vote this way, you can't do this.

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Really, just to have control.

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We should not be treated as criminals first and then innocent people later.

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It should be, listen, I earned this.

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This is mine.

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You can't take it from me.

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There's no buttons in the background where you can manipulate.

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It's all transparent.

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So regardless of what...

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What the alternative system is going to be, there needs to be an alternative to keep the first one honest.

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And it's not that it's the worst thing in the world.

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It's like, oh my God, right now, like everyone hates the current system.

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It's like, well, yeah, because it has no competition.

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Like you would hate if there was one restaurant in your town and like it was the only place to eat.

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And they raised the prices and they treated you like shit.

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And it's like, well, where else are you going to go?

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Where else are you going to eat?

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It's gotten to a point where it's like...

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You need them and they know that you can't go anywhere else.

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So they're going to, of course, going to extract you because we're in weak times.

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And you have the sons of strong men who are weak because they grew up rich and they're taking advantage of everybody.

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So to have an alternative system would at least keep that one balanced because you need both.

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There is no like, oh, we're all going to...

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Like they win.

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Ultimately, people like to sin.

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They're greedy.

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They're lustful.

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They like...

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They like...

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They like...

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They like to do fun shit that's never going to go away.

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And they really kind of control that because they can still print money.

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They have the armies and all of that.

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What we're trying to get to is a place to preserve our digital dignity, freedom of speech, and our store of value.

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And then from there, we can build circular economies that turn into tokenized communities that have their own incentive systems that can't be brought down.

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And now we're talking about digital nation states.

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And now we're getting somewhere where we can make a difference in the physical world.

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But we're so...

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We're so fucked.

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We're so far behind that we...

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It's like people...

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It's like we're fucking 20 feet underwater.

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Like we have to start swimming up now or we're going to sink too far and it's going to be over.

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And that starts...

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I mean, we're talking about literally freedom of speech.

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Like that sounds like an important word.

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It's like your ability to fucking talk.

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That's what we're...

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You're fighting for your ability to actually say something.

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You're fighting for your ability to actually say something.

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And some would not be able to silence you.

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Like how pathetic of a generation are we?

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And then it's like you work your whole life and they can take it from you?

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Because of what?

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Like you should...

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If you're not murdering somebody, if you're not doing something terribly bad, there should be...

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Like they treat you that way though.

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So having an alternative system will keep the first one in check.

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And building it is up to us.

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That's the whole point of this.

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So it's either going to manifest because we want it or it's not.

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But I think enough people want it that it will manifest.

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You want to add?

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Nice introduction, Dan.

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I would say regarding the voluntary migration to an alternative economy,

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the current economy is set up in such a way that

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it effectively extracts value from people.

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Everything is built in a way to extract value.

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So let's take Apple.

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Like the reason that we use Apple's products is because they're more efficient, they're better.

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And ultimately, it saves you time.

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It saves you time.

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It's cheaper than employing someone else to do it for you to use their products.

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And over time, that kind of continues, continues, continues

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until the point where those centralized companies,

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not just Apple, basically all the big seven tech companies,

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they control a significant portion of the world and it's all centralized.

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All of their systems are centralized.

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And so what are they doing?

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They are effectively substituting you for productivity.

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But instead of you having to work less,

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the system is currently set up so that you have to work more

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even though there's more productivity being created

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because of the technology of things like Apple, NVIDIA,

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Google, et cetera.

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And the problem with that is that there's a disbalance somewhere there, right?

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I mean, we all know deep down inside that as productivity gets better,

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as technology gets better, we should work less.

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But for some reason, the system is set up in a way that we don't work less.

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We work more.

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We're working more and more and more,

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even though the productivity is getting better and better and better.

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Well, that to me sounds like someone somewhere along the line is extracting some value

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that they probably shouldn't be taking.

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That's the nature of today's system.

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It's a debt-based system

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where all these companies have got to extract value from you,

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get you to work for them for free, effectively now with the AI training models.

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They're going to pay you even.

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They're going to pay you to learn from you.

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And then as you learn, as they learn from you, they're going to replicate you.

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Right?

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And then that's where all the productivity is going to go.

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And they're going to,

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they're going to take all the profits from that.

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And then they're going to use those profits to pay off the debts that they owe back to the system.

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And I think that's ultimately the problem is that we live in a debt-based centralized system

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where interest rates are controlled by central central banks.

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Where the big money is so much bigger than the central banks.

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It's kind of unfathomable and they really do control where the money goes and what goes on.

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And there's a massive separation between the rich and the poor.

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So,

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we just have this weird economic system that's just extracting value and using people's productivity against them

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to the point where now we're effectively becoming slaves.

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We're being told to stay in our houses.

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We're being told to have certain political opinions.

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Otherwise, we get censored.

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We're being told that if we don't have certain political opinions or we say the wrong thing,

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we can lose our social media accounts,

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which these big tech companies control.

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Well, that's the problem that we live in right now.

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That's the current paradigm we live in.

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And then, as we move to the decentralized world,

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especially if it's decentralized properly and correctly without a pre-mine or an ICO or a CEO or venture capital,

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and the layer one is neutral and thereby, therefore, provides human rights to the users,

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you can actually provide an alternative economy that can't be affected or shut down by the current economy.

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And we just think that as time goes on,

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that model is going to result in people,

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slowly but surely, migrating across to the new economy.

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As they see in the old economy,

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oh, I can't do this.

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I can't do that.

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I can't get my money.

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You know, the banks blocks your money.

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The bank tells you what you can do with your money these days.

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It's not even your money anymore.

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The system tells you what you can say.

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The productivity has been extracted from you.

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And so, at a certain point, you start to lose the ability to be free.

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And people feel this.

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They slowly but surely,

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feel it.

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They don't really realize it,

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but they definitely feel something.

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And I think as time goes on and these alternative economies come up that can't be shut down,

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that do provide you all equal human rights to all the people that use these systems,

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that do provide opportunity and social mobility

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and are not extracting productivity from the people,

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then people will slowly start to be like,

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oh, I can go over there.

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I have my human rights.

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I have my right to speak.

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I have my right to build economies.

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I have my right to earn.

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I have my right to transmit value.

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I have my right to build communities and followers list that can't be deleted

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and social media posts that can't be deleted

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and social media accounts that I own outright that no one can take off me.

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Once they start to see that,

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they'll start to think,

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well, maybe it's time I start to spend some more time over in that separate economy.

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And our ultimate vision is that it's a long,

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slow migration for people to move across peacefully into the new economy.

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That actually gives them dignity and human rights

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and doesn't extract their productivity and their value to pay off some debts that they own.

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Yeah.

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So what do you think about communities having their own sovereignty done?

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Any thoughts on communities with their own sovereignty?

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Cut this one started communities with their own sovereignty.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that's how it used to be.

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You used to have a town and it was your community and you know,

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you had control you could create economies people work together.

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It when it comes to the digital realm,

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which were more progressively moving more and more towards you starting to see that

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you don't have sovereignty your your communities can be taken from you.

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Communities are very powerful,

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especially international ones.

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You get like-minded people together saying things.

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That makes sense.

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People start to agree.

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You start to get more and more awareness.

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And then before you know it,

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you have a powerful network effect.

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To not be able to have control over that is giving keys of your house to someone else control

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of really everything to someone else.

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And that's just because this it's all it needs infrastructure.

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It needs people

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who can create the technology.

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It needs people who can understand.

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It and explain it to people.

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It needs a way to get on that doesn't have high barriers.

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So there's a lot

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of things when it comes to gaining sovereignty for a community at least in the digital world.

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If you don't have that you lose everything.

250
00:13:11,620 --> 00:13:17,820
That's the biggest threat outside of something like HBD which go hand-in-hand.

251
00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:23,120
You can't create a tokenized community without a stable way to store value.

252
00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:24,920
So

253
00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:32,520
they start off cute and small basket weaving Taskmaster and all these people coming together

254
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and

255
00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:39,120
talking about a hobby and creating a value capture within that community.

256
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:47,820
And then they become more serious as people in countries, especially bordering countries start to really

257
00:13:49,220 --> 00:13:53,020
talk and communicate in an immutable way that can't be severed.

258
00:13:53,020 --> 00:13:59,920
And then they find a way to incentivize infrastructure being built like you see in Ghana and Venezuela.

259
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,820
And then it becomes incredibly powerful because the network is now being protected.

260
00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:10,420
It's a very complex idea to think about having ownership over something digital.

261
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:17,220
That literally can't be taken from you and it requires people to do it in a voluntary way.

262
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:18,520
So

263
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,920
sovereignty over a community tokenized communities.

264
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,120
Are the next step.

265
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,120
You need to incentivize everything from infrastructure.

266
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,120
Everything that supports the community.

267
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,420
You need a text-based layer for the accounts.

268
00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:41,620
You need layers to ensure you have integrity

269
00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:48,120
over everything from the data to the list to the way you transfer value.

270
00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:51,520
All these things are complex.

271
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,620
If you're starting from

272
00:14:53,020 --> 00:14:55,820
a new perspective and you know nothing about it.

273
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,120
But as you start to dig deep you see how they work in tandem.

274
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,620
That's why I always say, you know, we didn't discover or we didn't Matt and I didn't like

275
00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:08,420
invent the idea of censorship resistance.

276
00:15:08,420 --> 00:15:12,920
It's really Hive when you look at how it's how it works.

277
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,820
You start to discover censorship resistance through Hive.

278
00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:22,620
And the algo stable coin how all these things work in tandem and then how to use that as a layer.

279
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,220
And be smart enough to know how to build layers on top.

280
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:32,320
So

281
00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:35,020
communities having their own sovereignty.

282
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,220
I think it's an interesting point like Dan said.

283
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,320
This is how it used to be communities would

284
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,520
create some value system or some common

285
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,620
culture that they perceive value around and then secure it by either creating borders or a fort or something.

286
00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:55,520
And then living in the way that they live.

287
00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:59,820
That's kind of the natural state of humans tribes if you like.

288
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,420
And there's times going on in the web to age.

289
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:05,120
We've kind of moved away from that a little bit.

290
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,120
We've gone to these mass mega

291
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,920
communities of cities and online communities.

292
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,620
But the problem is is while the big tech companies control the infrastructure.

293
00:16:16,020 --> 00:16:21,620
They control those communities and those communities can be there at the whim of those big tech big tech companies basically.

294
00:16:23,020 --> 00:16:26,820
And if those big tech companies become commandeered or corrupted.

295
00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:30,120
Then they will

296
00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:33,020
ultimately control the communities

297
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:34,920
and have them at their whim

298
00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:37,220
which isn't sovereignty for a community

299
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:44,920
when the community itself runs its own infrastructure and can create a neutral layer zero should say neutral layer one.

300
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:47,520
Then

301
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,420
the community can take sovereignty for itself in terms of the digital realm at least.

302
00:16:53,220 --> 00:17:00,120
And this is a massive step forward because now we have the ability for online communities to exist.

303
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,520
Create their own ecosystems and not be able to be shut down.

304
00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:09,520
So these these communities effectively have sovereignty online.

305
00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:16,720
And then as time goes on the natural progression of that is that those communities will then go to try to get sovereignty in the real world.

306
00:17:18,620 --> 00:17:22,720
There's obviously several factors to that as to what needs to be what they need to achieve.

307
00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:23,520
But

308
00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:25,420
it's the natural progression

309
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,420
and we this is the vision that we see that online communities will run their own infrastructure

310
00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:32,520
take their own sovereignty online

311
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,520
have their own identities have their own moral codes

312
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,520
and then start to

313
00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:47,220
manifest those in the real world and create actual borders actual territories

314
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,420
trade and roots and everything like that.

315
00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:52,920
So Dan, do you want to talk?

316
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:53,620
About

317
00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:58,320
communities creating their own sovereign economies and how they would do that?

318
00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:11,020
Creating a sovereign economy starts with having the right tech protocol as we've explained.

319
00:18:11,020 --> 00:18:12,620
You need a way to store data.

320
00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:21,320
You need a way to basically have freedom of speech freedom of value transfer and a value for value model to earn and no error.

321
00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:22,820
No barriers to entry.

322
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:29,720
To explain how Hive has worked and created its own network effect.

323
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,520
Basically its own tokenized network is the ability that show value.

324
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,520
Hey, I'm providing value and then because everyone's basically a DAO.

325
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,220
So it's like peer-to-peer DAOs people are

326
00:18:44,420 --> 00:18:51,620
judging who's providing value and distributing value to them and to do that without needing to pay or invest.

327
00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:58,320
The fee-less nature has made it spread to where it's needed the most.

328
00:19:01,020 --> 00:19:06,920
And it be able to store value in something like HBD so you can earn and store.

329
00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:12,020
People are earning through a value adding mechanism.

330
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:14,820
So that means more values being added in a chain.

331
00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:21,220
The clever trick here is they're providing value but them having and being a part of the network.

332
00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:22,320
Also is valuable.

333
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:28,220
So it's a 2x value in return for distribution.

334
00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:31,720
You need to survive your distribution basically and Hive has been able to do that.

335
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,320
It's gotten to a point where it's you know reach critical mass.

336
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,120
It's now showing the fruits of that labor.

337
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:43,720
Yeah, it could take years before you start to see really really noticeable differences.

338
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,820
But as terms of the roots there's they're really deep.

339
00:19:46,820 --> 00:19:51,120
It's proven its value and every day more and more people are discovering ways.

340
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:51,820
To use it.

341
00:19:54,420 --> 00:19:58,420
So people are going to naturally come together.

342
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:07,520
Find ways to use this technology to create circular economies because that's what it really comes down to.

343
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,520
Once you have a circular economy with HBD it starts with HBD.

344
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,120
Now you have enough people who are on the network.

345
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:20,220
Now you can say hey within this we're going to add another value capture because this is valuable.

346
00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:21,020
That's value.

347
00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:29,420
It's valuable to you know, promote a food chain or provide its valuable to you know, have beer Saturday.

348
00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:40,720
People have their own value captures and they'll find ways to recognize status within this community that some will find valuable some won't.

349
00:20:41,220 --> 00:20:47,720
And that's when you start to see very powerful little bubbles start to pop on top of this technology.

350
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,020
So having a place to store the tech.

351
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:57,320
Having your own account that can't be taken from you having the ability to spin up your own token.

352
00:20:58,220 --> 00:21:04,020
On top of these censorship resistant list and a way to distribute it where you're not a target.

353
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,620
A value for value model earning instead of selling.

354
00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:18,120
These are the models that are needed to build something that's truly censorship resistance and you have to think off chain.

355
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,020
So much goes off chain.

356
00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:24,520
When people think blockchain do you think so much?

357
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,420
It's like it's really just an order of account.

358
00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:38,420
So record-keeping thing who did what where the transactions are Hive is capable of long-form text, which just happens to be amazing and absolutely needed.

359
00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:45,020
Because you can keep up with morals law when you're just storing text, especially when you find ways to compress it.

360
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:50,520
We have been reached our final form with zero knowledge proofs where you can reduce it by another 90%.

361
00:21:51,820 --> 00:22:01,420
But the point being is you find a way to securely scale store text a scalable way and then you start to branch out.

362
00:22:02,820 --> 00:22:12,320
To create incentive mechanisms because I've just also happens to have a transaction layer which is absolutely needed because now you can incentivize outwards.

363
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:18,520
So you have a community that's not just reliant on a corporation, right?

364
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,920
You have a community does either reliant on.

365
00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:29,820
A network like the SPK Network where they can store and people are out there storing it for you across the world.

366
00:22:30,020 --> 00:22:37,220
But then you can add another layer on top of your community saying hey, you can earn badges if you're storing our content if that matters to you cool.

367
00:22:37,220 --> 00:22:42,620
But if not, it will encourage some and just that whole idea of thinking beyond.

368
00:22:42,620 --> 00:22:43,920
Oh, we are a community.

369
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:51,020
It's like well your community, but you also have to worry about how you're sustainable knowing that you truly can't behave.

370
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,320
Shut down because communities are much more in text or video their images.

371
00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:01,720
There are all sorts of things being able to create defy all this thing requires incentivization.

372
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,720
So that's where SPK Network comes in.

373
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,220
Yeah, so regards to communities creating their own sovereign economies.

374
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,120
The beauty of this is that this technology as long as it's built on a neutral layer.

375
00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:29,720
It can allow community communities to create their own sovereign economies, which is a first in history.

376
00:23:29,820 --> 00:23:31,220
People have tried this in the past.

377
00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:33,020
You know, you look at like the Brixton Pound.

378
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,720
There was a couple of things that happened in Denmark and Holland.

379
00:23:38,820 --> 00:23:50,920
If I recall correctly where different communities have actually formed, but then they start to create their own economies and then the government cracks down on them because they don't they don't like competitive competing economies existing in their own.

380
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,920
In the inside the territories of the nation states.

381
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:02,120
Well, this is where digital communities that kind of super national.

382
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,820
So they're kind of everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

383
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:13,620
And so they're going to have their own economies in future as long as those economies are distributed properly and we'll go into what that is as the book proceeds.

384
00:24:16,820 --> 00:24:20,620
So then once you've got a distribution mechanism for for an economy.

385
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:32,120
To these communities where the community members can demonstrate their producing value for the community and receive value from our community in the form of governance distribution or distribution of these tokens.

386
00:24:33,620 --> 00:24:37,220
Then you have the basis of an economy for a community.

387
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:48,720
And what will happen is ideally those that token distribution represents governance rights and the more that you do that's good for the community.

388
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,920
The more the community recognizes that and the more that they then.

389
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,020
Direct inflation collectively towards those value creators.

390
00:24:55,420 --> 00:25:02,320
So the people who are valuable within the community will receive the most tokens and therefore receive the most governance rights.

391
00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:10,820
And communities, of course, will play with all sorts of different governance systems, which will talk more about governance later on in the book.

392
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:16,920
But they'll have lots of different experimentations on governance styles and governance types.

393
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,820
They'll be more socialistic models of the more capitalistic models that were more communistic models.

394
00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:27,220
More anarchistic models that different communities try, but they'll all be able to tailor their own economies.

395
00:25:27,220 --> 00:25:30,420
There are distribution mechanisms to value creators within those communities.

396
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:41,220
And that really gives them the ability then to maintain sovereignty and maintain independence because they can distribute value to the value creates of those communities.

397
00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:45,420
And those value creators might be individual people who are doing activities out in the street.

398
00:25:45,820 --> 00:25:50,720
There might be, you know, helping people fix things in the street.

399
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:58,120
Or running events for the community or being some kind of representative of the community.

400
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:06,720
People might provide services to the community and these communities and then use their tokens that they've distributed to begin funding these different activities.

401
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,320
That may especially activities that maintain primarily their sovereignty.

402
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,220
So the other thing they'll be able to do is incentivize infrastructure operators.

403
00:26:15,620 --> 00:26:19,920
So those infrastructure operators can be elected by the community because there's a governance vote distribution.

404
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:28,820
And those governance votes can then highlight within the community who are the best infrastructure operators that keep that community sovereign and independent.

405
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,120
And so this is these are all things that a sovereign community economy can do.

406
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:45,120
The other thing that it can do as well is create liquidity pools so that you can have you can have trading back and forth from between different economies from that economy.

407
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,320
The other thing it can do as well is create something.

408
00:26:50,020 --> 00:27:03,420
Like a DAO, a decentralized autonomous organization where it's another liquidity pool that creates funds for the community and that community then can vote on which funds that which funds they want to direct to which projects.

409
00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:09,020
And you know, obviously the community is most likely to vote for the projects that benefit the community itself.

410
00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:19,320
And then the those tokens can be sold into the market because the liquidity pools are created and the liquidity pools will be will enable those DAOs to function.

411
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,520
So you'll kind of go hand in hand.

412
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:37,920
Yeah, and then you have the basically the tenants that I've just described allow communities to to grab their own self-sovereignty and remain self-sovereign independent of any other actor.

413
00:27:39,020 --> 00:27:43,720
And that's really what these economies are going to do for these communities going forwards into the future.

414
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,220
And the last thing here done is

415
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,720
communities forming network states.

416
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,120
That are recognized by other governance or the government's.

417
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,220
What do you think about that?

418
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,620
Well, that's ultimately where all this heads.

419
00:28:02,620 --> 00:28:15,720
I believe if you have a way for a community to create value that can't be stopped communicate in a way that can't be censored and transfer value that is stable that can't be seized.

420
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,720
Ultimately, you're going to

421
00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:19,720
have powerful

422
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,520
communities that form

423
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:33,220
people think that people on Facebook and Twitter and all these things have large followings are very powerful, but you don't know how they're capped and how powerful they really could be in the reach that they really could have

424
00:28:34,220 --> 00:28:35,620
when there's no ceiling.

425
00:28:36,620 --> 00:28:38,620
And it only takes

426
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:46,720
one to prove the model before you start seeing different and it's funny because people

427
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,320
think of a digital nation and they

428
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,020
they think of some kind of like

429
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,720
digital military or something.

430
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,420
I mean, it could be an influencer and as a

431
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,220
million followers that become so powerful

432
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,020
that can't be stopped and other governments have to talk to some like,

433
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:03,620
you know,

434
00:29:04,020 --> 00:29:07,620
random ass influencer like it's going to be some idiocracy thing

435
00:29:08,020 --> 00:29:09,420
where these people

436
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:16,120
having a large following is all that matters in this world in terms of getting things done.

437
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,020
It's never been a time in history where anyone.

438
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,820
One can just amass

439
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,420
a million people that will listen to you.

440
00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:25,320
And that's why it's so important

441
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:34,420
for these people to control these mechanism mechanisms because if you get too big too many people follow you you can actually really make a difference.

442
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,920
And that's why we see so many people

443
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,120
and it's very difficult to know who's real who's not who's a psyop who accounts were just

444
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:45,920
you know made that way to seem bigger than they really are to influence

445
00:29:46,420 --> 00:29:49,120
because people have a sheep mentality in terms of

446
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,220
oh, well,

447
00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:51,820
if this made people like it,

448
00:29:51,820 --> 00:29:52,720
it must be good.

449
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,020
So I automatically like it even though they don't like it deep down.

450
00:29:57,020 --> 00:29:58,520
So when you see somebody

451
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,120
who just comes out of nowhere who has millions of followers and seems like they have a bunch of likes people might think oh,

452
00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:04,620
you know,

453
00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:06,220
it sounds stupid or wrong,

454
00:30:06,220 --> 00:30:09,120
but maybe it's right because so many people can't be wrong.

455
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,620
So we live in a very strange time where we've given so much power

456
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,120
and we've made ourselves so susceptible as a community.

457
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:29,320
Now if you have open transparent digital communities where people understand what's going on to understand those are real those are earned

458
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,220
they have reputation.

459
00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:33,220
They're not psyops.

460
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,920
They're not controlled.

461
00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:43,420
That's when you start to get something really serious and it doesn't really matter who it is.

462
00:30:43,420 --> 00:30:48,620
If you have economic force if you have enough people with enough productivity and enough

463
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,420
money basically enough fortune of wealth

464
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:54,820
and you can't be stopped

465
00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:59,020
and you can't be silenced ultimately have to be negotiated with

466
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,420
and these things have no ceilings.

467
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,220
So you can have a community get so big so powerful

468
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,620
and people huff and puff about it.

469
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,420
It only makes them more powerful.

470
00:31:12,020 --> 00:31:15,220
And before you know it you have to negotiate with them in terms of

471
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,720
what you want to get done.

472
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,220
And that's when you really start getting back into the you know,

473
00:31:21,220 --> 00:31:23,520
getting back the land capturing the physical

474
00:31:24,420 --> 00:31:26,120
but the digital has to be captured.

475
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,120
It's up for grabs right now.

476
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,520
They're doing it in a very slick way.

477
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,420
It's all psyop.

478
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,820
They're all want you to believe that

479
00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:40,620
things are decentralized when they're not run your own node knowing people won't run your own critical infrastructure knowing people will not

480
00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:44,820
making things unusable and forcing people on the centralized layers.

481
00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:46,120
It's all part of the plan.

482
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,520
It's going according to plan.

483
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,220
Hive is some black swan event where community forked out a pre-mine really.

484
00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:53,520
It's the only way to do it.

485
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,920
These things just aren't done,

486
00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:56,020
you know,

487
00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:59,020
it's like there's always going to be some kind of pre-mine.

488
00:31:59,020 --> 00:32:00,620
You can look at bitcoins being pure,

489
00:32:00,620 --> 00:32:02,820
but we still don't even know the you know,

490
00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:08,320
the 5% or whatever your bitcoins were you designed in a way that's convenient for the elite

491
00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:14,220
but getting outside of that you don't see anything that didn't have a corruptible start.

492
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:16,620
And the way Hive is spread.

493
00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:17,620
It's just an anomaly.

494
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,320
Hive is just a fucking rare thing

495
00:32:20,820 --> 00:32:21,620
to see

496
00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:25,320
and that's the technology you need to be able to rival something.

497
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,820
You need this anomaly that couldn't have been planned for

498
00:32:28,420 --> 00:32:32,820
where it had such a great distribution and then cut out the centralizing

499
00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:34,720
ninja mine.

500
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:36,920
So

501
00:32:37,620 --> 00:32:45,320
really there's Hive you can build technology on top of that that creates censorship resistant communities that have censorship resistant value transfers

502
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:47,420
value for value models that

503
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,020
spread like wildfire.

504
00:32:49,820 --> 00:32:52,020
I think ultimately governments join.

505
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,720
They become their own digital Nations.

506
00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:59,820
Having a value for value model within the government.

507
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,020
It's like earned reputation for building a well in Ghana

508
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:10,820
and the government recognizes that and like you can earn like there's ways that the government can get involved that are very unique and clever.

509
00:33:10,820 --> 00:33:15,920
They can clink on to this technology and I think some are going to have to it's gonna be like a tidal wave.

510
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:16,920
It just picks them up

511
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,220
and they look around and they realize that's what everyone's using

512
00:33:20,620 --> 00:33:24,820
and really what's a government a government is an elected body to help the people work.

513
00:33:24,820 --> 00:33:27,320
There's an outside force that is doing that.

514
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,020
They become irrelevant and becomes obvious.

515
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,420
And then they have to join.

516
00:33:32,420 --> 00:33:33,720
It's only way to say face.

517
00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:43,120
Yeah, when it comes to communities forming network states, they are recognized by governance.

518
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:45,620
I think

519
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:53,320
what's going to happen is once these communities have their own economies and they can self-fund and maintain self-sovereignty.

520
00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:55,920
Some of them are going to get their own territories.

521
00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:02,520
And then they're going to start trading with existing governments and existing states.

522
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,520
And as long as it continues to provide value at a certain point, some of those states are going to recognize them.

523
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,520
You know, I think I think the approach will be not to do it not to rock the boat too much not to do.

524
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,520
Do anything that will be considered terroristic or anything.

525
00:34:19,020 --> 00:34:23,020
But as time goes on, you can't really stop the people from claiming sovereignty.

526
00:34:23,020 --> 00:34:27,220
If you can't, if you can't shut them down in the ways that we've described previously.

527
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,720
And that will become more clear as we go through the rest of the book.

528
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,820
So you're going to have these communities that can't be shut down.

529
00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:37,620
They're going to have their own economies.

530
00:34:37,620 --> 00:34:42,020
It could self-fund and then they're going to be conducting their own trade at a certain point.

531
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:45,520
Once you start conducting trade with the nations, those nations are going to recognize you.

532
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:57,520
And that's one of the friendly ways to get to a place where you you have recognized separate network states that exist of their own right.

533
00:35:02,020 --> 00:35:07,520
One of the things that I thought was interesting that Dan was just talking about was governments joining.

534
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,520
So there's lots of states in South America that we've been to and we've discussed with many people there.

535
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,920
And their approach is very different to that of the West.

536
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,920
Their approach is how do we bring the government in?

537
00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:24,520
Because I've had so much trouble with the government in the past that they look at government in a slightly different way.

538
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,320
They maybe respect it or fear a bit more than we do in the West.

539
00:35:29,820 --> 00:35:35,320
And so several people I've spoken to in South America have mentioned how do we bring the governments into these systems?

540
00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:44,520
And one way would be for the governments to exchange some of their national debt budget for the stable coins that exist in these ecosystems.

541
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,320
Then earn passports.

542
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:52,520
And that would be a massive yield on those stable coins by providing liquidity to speculators basically.

543
00:35:52,520 --> 00:36:01,520
Which is effectively what they do as part of their sovereign wealth funds already in the current economy.

544
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:08,520
So this would allow us to have a way to negotiate and find a middle ground with existing governments.

545
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:14,520
And let them take part in these ecosystems and benefit financially from them in a transparent way.

546
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:21,520
And maybe even begin to earn their own status and reputations in these ecosystems within these communities.

547
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,520
And let the communities recognize them from scratch.

548
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,520
Starting at the bottom and working your way up.

549
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:33,520
And what that does is it allows a government to not only gain financial interests in these ecosystems.

550
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,520
But it allows them to gain legitimacy and reputation.

551
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,520
And the legitimacy is the important thing.

552
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,520
And I feel like there's an opportunity there for many governments.

553
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,520
I think first we're going to go through the fight.

554
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,520
Then they fight you stage.

555
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:55,520
But eventually there are these routes in financially and through legitimacy earning routes.

556
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:02,520
That allow governments to really benefit from this as well as the communities themselves.

557
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,520
So there is a real path here that we can go down where it doesn't end up in a fight.

558
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,520
It doesn't end up in clashes and controversy.

559
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,520
There is definitely a way for everyone.

560
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,520
Everyone to win here.

561
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:21,520
And so I think in the future we're going to have these network states existing independently.

562
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Recognized by governments.

563
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:31,520
But also with governments benefiting from various financial interests that they can take in these communities.

564
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,520
And earn passively to give back to their own people.

565
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,520
And also where the people themselves provide legitimacy to the governments that exist.

566
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,520
Using these open transparent decentralized systems.

567
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Where they earn their legitimacy from scratch back to where it should be.

568
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,520
And then the people provide legitimacy to the governments in return.

569
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,520
So yeah I think that's where it's going to go.

570
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,520
I think it's a very very interesting path we're going to go down.

571
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:03,520
It seems to me that these digital sovereign communities or network states.

572
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,520
As they're often referred to.

573
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,520
It's not possible to shut them down if they're decentralized properly.

574
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,520
As we'll detail in the following chapters.

575
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:19,520
You'll clearly see how exactly you have to decentralize properly.

576
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:25,520
To make sure that your ecosystem, your community or your network state cannot be shut down.

577
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,520
And once people start doing this.

578
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,520
Then we have to go on this course.

579
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,520
It's not possible to go backwards.

580
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,520
And so some of these communities will get recognition.

581
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,520
Some of them will be recognized as network states.

582
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,520
And yeah.

583
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,520
Hopefully we create win-win situations with this technology.

584
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,520
Which is very clearly possible to do.

585
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,520
And yeah.

586
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,520
Interesting future coming up.